Planting in Pots / Summer and Winter Dormancy

<danab> I am going to pot up the arils and AB's from ASI
<danab> since we are already having a freeze I am worried about the AB's
getting settled
<danab> I think I will pot them and leave them in the greenhouse for a
month or two
<danab> If I pot them up long enough to get them rooted
<danab> then slowly move them outside, before planting out, will they
make it through the winter

<SharonMcA> My rule has been to pot rhizomes received in the heat of
summer then move them to the garden when established clumps broke
dormancy.
<SharonMcA> Any that were received too late for that would be carried
under lights over the winter and moved outside when the established
clumps broke winter dormancy.
<SharonMcA> Here, that's early Feb.

<jijones> Dana, I don't think the Arils would mind the cold weather as
long as they have a root system started

<danab> hmm...
<danab> that is a dilemma, last year most of my AB's never went dormant

<SharonMcA> If they don't go dormant in your climate, you don't have to
be concerned about working around dormancy!

<danab> so, they can take a light freeze?
<danab> I misstated that
<danab> of course they can take a light freeze

<SharonMcA> Guess I should ask what you mean by "dormant".  Here, most
things go "green-dormant" over the winter.

<danab> What worries me is that since they haven't put out roots what
will happen if they get a light freeze

<SharonMcA> Still have leaves showing, but aren't actively growing.

<danab> Dormant to me is loosing most or all of the leaves and no new
growth

<SharonMcA> That describes our summer dormancy well.

<danab> Many of the iris in my new AB beds have not gone summer dormant
either

<SharonMcA> If you plant summer-dormant rhizomes after the first frost,
they'll probably survive but won't resume growth until time to break
winter dormancy so can't be expected to do as well as those planted
optimally.

<SharonMcA> Many of the newer cultivars don't go summer-dormant if the
climate is hospitable.  Hybridizers have been working on that trait for
decades. 

<danab> Excellent Sharon
<danab> we put in new beds tailored for the AB and increased their water
in the summer

<SharonMcA> I can trick them into remaining green by using shadecloth
<G>.

<danab> that seems to have done it for us
<danab> of course there are a few that aren't happy
<danab> I think that may be due more to the new barn cat using the beds
as a cat box than anything else

<SharonMcA> some need that summer dormancy to form next year's bloom
stalks. 

<danab> great....
<danab> that would be my luck
<danab> <G>

<SharonMcA> if you want only the types that don't go dormant, supplying
extra water during the summer will sure eliminate the others.

<danab> we lost two out of 32
<danab> and those two were both dug up repeatedly by the barn cat

<SharonMcA> The more aril "blood", the more likely one will need its
dormant period.

<danab> ok, then I will set the species crosses we just got over on the
west side and water them less

<SharonMcA> a "cat"-astrophe, I take it.

<danab> let them go dormant when they want

<SharonMcA> what species are involved?

<danab> Atropurpea, hermona, samariae

<SharonMcA> all oncos that do seem to need their dormancy.  Only I.
paradoxa has ever bloomed for me without it, and it's a mountain
species.

<SharonMcA> It's requirements for dormancy seem to be more like those of
the regelias....

<jijones> Joanne says our Oncos are starting to sprout

<danab> well, I will let these puppies go dormant, that is a lot easier
on me

Arilbredmedians

<danab> I really like the MDB's but need to do some serious research
before purchasing so I can find the ones that require less chill time

<vgbro> Dana keeps them so she gets that first shot of color rather than
go nuts waitng for the rest

<danab> mine are doing better now that they are in raised beds

<SharonMcA> ABMs are less popular than MDBs, but also bloom very early
and seem to require less chilling.

<danab> Sharon I agree and am planting more of them each year

<SharonMcA> raised beds work, IF they include am edging that helps hold
in a pool of cool air.
<SharonMcA> Of course, you can always dump ice in the bed on winter
days.

<danab> so you want the edges of the beds taller than the dirt to hold
the air?
<danab> since they say that anything in a pot has to be hardy to 1 zone
colder to survive, I figure raised beds mean I am raising MDB's in zone
6

Cultivars

<danab> A lot of what I bought this time are 3/4 breds

<SharonMcA> The AB+ with onco cytoplasm are the trickiest here, the ones
with maternal regelia lines the most tolerant. 

<danab> I used some of Sharon's info on which ones were fertile

<SharonMcA> The ones like ENGRAVED INVITATION with TB cytoplasm are
often easier to grow than 1/2-breds.

<danab> Engraved Invitation has done really well here until this last
move
<danab> I think I made it made, it sulked this year

<SharonMcA> tetraploid 3/4-breds or quantum system 3/4-breds?

<danab> Got me Sharon, I don't know
<danab> I looked for cultivars that you mentioned on your webpage
<danab> I wanted things to do some hybridizing with
<danab> we are having decent luck with OGB X TB but would like to
increase the amount of aril in them

<SharonMcA> If you can give me some names, I can probably tell you the
type.

<danab> Sharon I hate to make you work on your fun time, but thanks for
the offer

<SharonMcA> Main difference is culture.  Both 2/3 & 3/4 tend to be
partially fertile.

<danab> what do you mean by culture

<SharonMcA> Most 2/3 or AAB-types have onco cytoplasm.  The secret to
success of dividing them EVERY year.

<danab> wow, every year

<SharonMcA> Most of the 3/4 or AAAB-types have regelia cytoplasm and do
well if left in place for several years.

<danab> I worry about losing things when I dig that often

<danab> OK, now I am gonna have to go look at what I got <G>

<SharonMcA> I have one test bed of 3/4-breds that has been untouched for
over 5 years and still managed to bloom last year.

<SharonMcA> Some of the 2/3-breds from CA hybridizers are drop-dead
GORGEOUS, but I didn't list them in our catalog because I felt they
required too much special care.

<danab> this year we acquired:
<danab> Volunteer Fireman, At Last, Desert Embroidery, Burra Sahib

<SharonMcA> Great for people who know what they are and how to treat
them, but my overall goal has always been gardenability.

<danab> Night Dreamer, Saracen Warrior, Mohr Pretender, Corning, Land of
Enchantment,

<SharonMcA> VOLUNTEER FIREMAN is a 1/4-bred.  TOUGH as nails, if you
have the real thing but there have been imposters making the rounds for
many years.

<danab> Turkish Fez, Koko Knoll, Kiosk, Seraph's Jewel

<SharonMcA> AT LAST is from 1/4 x 1/2 breeding.  Relatively infertile
like a 1/4-bred but grows more like a 1/2-bred.

<danab> Tslil, Emerald Fantasy, Arabian Midnight, Zizah, Close Contact

<danab> Omar's Stitchery, Mohric Art, Desert Jubilee, William Mohr

<SharonMcA> DESERT EMBROIDERY also from 1/2 x 1/4 breeding, but have no
observations on growth habits.

<danab> can't find the last list....

<SharonMcA> NIGHT DREAMER is a 3/4, but with C.G.W. pod parent so not as
tolerant of remaining in place as those with regelia maternal lines.

<danab> I will make a note on that one Sharon

<SharonMcA> SARACEN WARRIOR, MOHR PRETENDER & LAND OF ENCHANTMENT are
all 1/2-breds.
<SharonMcA> Hey, you can list 'em faster than I can answer!

<danab> I cheated, I had the lists right here, if I could just find the
last one
<danab> I think that is where the 3/4 breds are

<SharonMcA> CORNING is an AAB-type with onco cytoplasm.  Will reward you
for frequent division.

<SharonMcA> EMERALD FANTASY is an AAB, but with korolkowii cytoplasm and
is super-easy to grow here.

<danab> Cool Sharon, I like the easy part

<Patrick`> Emerald Fantasy sent up a candleabra of 7 stalks last year
for me Sharon

<danab> this puts me up around 100 AB's.  We are hoping to do some
serious (for us) hybridizing next year

<SharonMcA> Most of the others you listed are 1/2-breds.

<danab> can't find my list of 3/4's

<SharonMcA> Didn't spot any more of the old AAB-types.

<danab> Thanks, I made a note of the one you mentioned and will earmark
them for yearly digging
<danab> I am hopeful with Volunteer Fireman.  The gentleman that shared
it has had it a very long time and has grown probably got it from Keith
Patton

<SharonMcA> I used to put the predominantly onco 2/3s in a separate
bed. 

<danab> I could do that
<danab> we have been putting the 1/4 breds in with the TB's and made
these two new beds for the iris with heavier amounts of aril
<danab> also wanted to try some species


<danab> Sharon, are any of these  3/4 breds
<danab> Bronze Falcon, Code Talker, Darling Who Knows, Doug Goodnight,
Persian Quest, and Syrian Princess

<SharonMcA> BRONZE FALCON is a 3/4-bred that's very easy to grow.  Would
have to look it up but think it has TB cytoplasm.

<danab> how will that impact its breedability

<SharonMcA> CODE TALKER and DOUG GOODNIGHT are both AAAB-type 3/4-breds.
<SharonMcA> Haven't experimented with BRONZE FALCON, but would test it
with TBs on the chance of getting something fertile in the first
generation.
<SharonMcA> Would call DARLING WHO KNOWS more than 1/2 aril, but as
there are some unknowns in its background it's hard to say exactly what
chromosome complement it has.
<SharonMcA> will have to hit the books on that one.
<SharonMcA> PERSIAN QUEST is also an AAAB-type but I haven't used it
because of the unknowns in its pedigree.

<danab> well, maybe I just marked all those I wanted from your web page
on my want list....
<danab> oh well, something to look forward to next year <G>\

<SharonMcA> SYRIAN PRINCESS is an AAB-type, but with 1/2-bred pod parent
and korolkowii maternal lines so much easier to grow than the
predominantly onco types.

<SharonMcA> If your climate is hospitable to TBs, crossing the AAABs
with TBs could be both interesting and productive.

<danab> I think my climate could be rated as hospitable

<SharonMcA> I'd expect that cross to be as effective as the tetraploid
Aril X ABBB cross is here.
<SharonMcA> but TBs are a real challenge here.  Must have shadecloth and
extra water, then may still get blasted by the hot winds before flowers
open.
<danab> well we will sure give it a try

<danab> TB are not a problem here, matter of fact we can grow most of
the bearded except MDB's

<SharonMcA> I think I recall KOKO KNOLL on your list, but I skipped it
because it's a 1/2-bred.
<SharonMcA> It

<danab> you're right it is there

<SharonMcA> has been one of my best producers of 1/4-breds, though.

<danab> Alright!!! I did get one<G>
<danab> Now all I have to do is what every hybridizer strives for is
make an AB that will grown anywhere and be instantly recognizable as an
AB

Black Arils & Arilbreds

<danab> actually the blackest iris I have ever seen was an AB
<danab> followed by a Spu and then the TB's

<SharonMcA> Blackest I have seen was a HUNT seedling I didn't introduce
because it wasn't a strong enough grower.

<danab> now that is a heart breaker Sharon

<SharonMcA> BLACK is hard to come by here.  Have heard that DOUG
GOODNIGHT is near black in more moderate climates, but here it is light
enough that the black signal is quite noticeable.
<SharonMcA> That seedling had a jet black bud.  Darker than even I.
nigricans.
<danab> I saw it in Amarillo last year and it was pretty dark

<SharonMcA> After several days open in full sun it faded to blue-black.
Comparable but darker than the old TB, PATENT LEATHER.

<danab> Arabian Midnight was black as sin when I saw it

<SharonMcA> lighter than raisin, here.

<danab> wow, what a difference
<danab> we gave it Queen in Amarillo couple of years ago and it was
soooo black I couldn't see the signal

<Patrick`> if you lower the PH of the soil will it get darker?

<SharonMcA> ARABIAN MIDNIGHT is lighter than raisin -- just a
purplish-brown.
<SharonMcA> I haven't noticed color changes with changes in pH, but here
the main factor is the hot sun.

<danab> burns them up
<danab> bleaches them out

<Patrick`> here too sharon
<Patrick`> phoenix is bad on dark irises
<Patrick`> it burns Superstition

<danab> thats tough Patrick

<SharonMcA> ABs tend to be more sunfast, probably because of the depth
of their layers of pigments.