Topics:  

• Descendant Analysis
• Planting in Pots
• Arilbred Cultivars
• Reblooming Arilbreds

• Maternal Inheritance

   

In order of appearance:

• <SharonMcA> is Sharon McAllister
• <judy> is Judy Eckhoff
• <danab> is Dana Brown
• <Elsie> is Elsie Harrow
• <vgbro> is Vern Brown
• <BarbJ> is Barb Johnson
• <Patrick`> is Patrick Orr
• <RogerD> is Roger Duncan
• <Dave> is Dave Silverberg

Descendant Analysis

<SharonMcA> VERY different subject: is anyone here interested enough in hybridizing to have explored to stuff on my web site regarding Descendant Analysis?

<judy> I read through it Sharon, little over my head  but I did understand the basic ideas

<SharonMcA> Of limited interest, I know! But it's been up quite a while and I just got some feedback that it was hard to trace lineage from progenitor through the advanced generations listed.  wondered if anyone else had noticed this.

<judy> I hadn't noticed but I don't know enough to catch mistakes

<SharonMcA> Judy -- the information is there, but I think he had a point and can see a better way of presenting it. So at the moment I am VERY open to suggestions!

<judy> I'll do some more reading and if I have a problem understanding, I'll let you know

<SharonMcA> I'm now going through all pedigrees and putting the progenitor of interest or it's descendant in bold red.  I think that makes the links much easier to spot.

<judy> yes it probably will Sharon

Planting in Pots

<danab> you guys should see the AB's that I potted up grow.  they are growing like crazy.  I can almost measure it from one day to the next.  I potted these because the weather turned wet before we got the new bed built

<SharonMcA> Dana -- I always had better results when I potted imports and let them develop good root systems before planting out.

<danab> well, it seems to be working here, the ones outdoors are not growing this fast

<judy> I've had excellant results starting them off in pots first

<vgbro> Sharon , How long do you leave them potted?

<Elsie> my babies under the lights are thriving

<SharonMcA> If possible, I plant outside as soon as it's cool enough. That means July arrivals could be in the ground in Sept. Otherwise, hold until established clumps break spring dormancy.

<vgbro> It was an acclimation thing

<Elsie> I need to go begging at our local nursery  for pots

<SharonMcA> BTW, some cherished species do live in large pots year 'round so they can be moved to better locations as needed.

<judy> lol

<danab> I would almost rather buy them than bleach out the old ones

<danab> I have wondered about that Sharon

<Barbj> Some pots don't weather very well, depending on the kind of

plastic

<danab> easier to control water, nutrients, etc

<Elsie> I use a rubbermaid tub on a hot day with water and bleach  to wash the pots

<judy> just throw mine in a 5 gal bucket outside

<Elsie> I used it to wash what I dug this year too for our sale

<judy> with soap & bleach, then dry on the drivway

<Patrick`> I have 50 two-gallon containers with irises in them one month

old...Each one is doing wonderfully.

<SharonMcA> Large CLAY pots. Plastic ones don't breathe well enough for long-term use.

<danab> I was washing pots last month and got so tired of chasing them down I quit!  my problem with clay pots is freezing and cracking in the winter

<judy> I use mine over & over

<SharonMcA> Plastic does well for short-term use, like seedlings.

<Elsie> Judy do you use clay or plastic?

<judy> plastic

<SharonMcA> Dana -- if it's cold enough to freeze & crack a clay pot, that species is done for anyway!

<danab> I dump my clay pots out in the winter and store them in the barn till spring

<RogerD> plastic dries out and cracks here

<judy> but everything is planted by fall

<Patrick`> Elsie, where do you live

<danab> I must admit I've never had one crack here, just been warned about it, how cold is that?

<Elsie> SW Oklahoma

<SharonMcA> I. paradoxa & I. acutiloba are in clay pots in the garden room, next to the house. If a hard freeze is predicted they come inside for the night.

<Barbj> Sharon, it might depend on the place you live. I have no trouble with irises in plastic pots.

<SharonMcA> Plastic holds up well for inside use, can take a few weeks

outside in the shade while seedlings are being hardened off.

<Elsie> I have my babies in styrof0am cups under the lights at the

moment

<Patrick`> Pots are so cheap, and I do not wish to spend the time bleaching old ones...I toss old ones and buy new...much easier

<SharonMcA> Yes, climate has a LOT to do with it.

<Patrick`> my two gallon pots I got for free from the nursery

<Barbj> Those cheap pots you get flowers in are the #5 plastic, and they do weather and crack real bad

<Barbj> I repot in the #2s

<SharonMcA> Fiberglass rated for 10-year lifespan degraded noticeably in the first year, broke the second.

<Barbj> hmmm!

<Elsie> Rough climate Sharon

<SharonMcA> should probably post more old pics on the website. The greenhouse was nice while it lasted.

<Barbj> well, my blind labels are done for after about 3 years

<Barbj> so I made new ones for that bed this year

<danab> that it is, anyplace TB's have to grow under shade cloth is

rough

<Patrick`> Sharon, my insulated fiberglass rated for 10 years also has

degraded noticeably over the last year

<Barbj> I could have used some when it was 100 this summer

<vgbro> We made some pots with 40% long glass fiber and uv stabilizer and have had them for about 5 years with no problem

<Barbj> MADE some pots?

<danab> the only degradation I have seen on my greenhouse is from the hole the hail put in it <G>

<vgbro> I work for a plastic injection molding company

<Barbj> oh, neat!

<SharonMcA> some of my clay pots are over 20 years old. Seems like the newer ones are more likely to shatter.

<vgbro> Most of the pots used commercially for plants a acrylic or polypropelene

<Patrick`> I have three old clay pots of 10 years or more that are doing well too

Arilbred Cultivars

<Patrick`> sharon...you are the one that really likes arilbreds, right?

<RogerD> I like them too :-(

<Dave> Patrick - you should kneel down in the presence of Aril Royalty

<RogerD> amen David

<Patrick`> we had a guy at the fall trek in tucson show us a bunch of arilbreds slides...now we have members wanting to get rid of all their TB's and get arilbreds only

<jb> I like some of them....but it looks like GHOST DANCER won't make it

<RogerD> Patrick doesn't like arilbreds

<Patrick`> I did not ever say that

<SharonMcA> Well, I did sacrifice all my TB seedlings when Gene Hunt was killed and his family expected me to take care of his stock.

<Patrick`> It is just that I LIKE TB's

<RogerD> you only have Silent Tears, right Patrick?

<Patrick`> that is right roger

<jb> I saw a pic of that in the bulletin....very nice

<Patrick`> it is better in person

<RogerD> that picture wasn't very nice jb, it looks MUCH better

<jb> have to try that one next year

<SharonMcA> GHOST DANCER is a novelty, quite different but not loved by most AB fanciers.

<Patrick`> I am sending you my picture of silent tears jb

<jb> Dana sent it to me, it sounded nice  (GD)

<SharonMcA> most aril nuts dismiss SILENT TEARS, TWILIGHT RAIN and the like as too much like variegated TBs.  But the variegated one I named GRANNY'S GRANITE POT was the hands-down favorite of garden visitors two years in a row.

<Patrick`> OH, How can I forget...My favorite...SPLASH DANCE is 5/8ths aril  but it looks like a grape broken color TB  so I have 2 arilbreds

<jb> cool, Patrick....definitely on my "get next year" list

<Patrick`> Roger sells it cheap

<SharonMcA> Sorry, but SPLASH DANCE is just a 1/4-bred.

<Patrick`> but you have to order early

<jb> why? in demand?

<RogerD> we don't grow Splash Dance?

<SharonMcA> This is a VERY good pattern for using with tetraploid arils to get NICE fully fertile halfbreds in the first generation.

<Patrick`> You are right Sharon...sorry...it is actually 5/16ths if you do the math on the parentage, but Don just listed it as a 1/4

<Patrick`> Roger, I was telling JB to order silent tears early

<RogerD> we grow tons of Silent Tears, never sell out, have it naturalized all over the property

<Patrick`> thanks for the info sharon...I will have to try it

<RogerD> it's always our #1 selling AB

<Patrick`> I thought you always sold out of it Roger.

<RogerD> except for this year when Emerald Fantasy tied with it

<Patrick`> it sure is popular

<SharonMcA> By the old quantum system, it actually is less than 1/4 so there was some debate as to whether it could compete for AB awards. But BOLD SENTRY was counted as amphidiploid so SPLASH DANCE is now accepted as a chromosome-set OGB- or 1/4-bred.

<RogerD> we've been growing it for 3-4 years before Ardi even introduced it Patrick

<Patrick`> I grew EF until two years ago, it bloomed out with 7 stalks

<RogerD> Onlooker can do that for us

<Patrick`> That is interesting Sharon. Thanks.

<SharonMcA> ONLOOKER has onco cytoplasm. Likes to be divided frequently and has thus self-destructed in my garden several times. But still makes a good pollen parent with the right mate.

<Patrick`> Prince Thou Art is one of the nicest arilbred I have seen too, but it will not bloom for me. I had it four years. It blooms for everyone else. So I got rid of it

<RogerD> we transplant everything every year

<Patrick`> I have too, but this time I am going to give them 2 or 3 years to grow

<Dave> How much additional help do you have Roger??

<RogerD> I am Patrick, but my only help is Rick, if you call that help

<Patrick`> they are up 8-10 inches here already

<jb> some are down a year....and have 10 fans poking up

<SharonMcA> commercial beds got transplanted every year. Seedlings always left in place to test survival because most people don't transplant every year. Then there are the test beds....  one has been in place about 10 years now. Performance degrading but I just want to see what it does. Others have been sporadic but CHAPEAU and TRIBE OF JUDAH have never failed to bloom.

Reblooming Arilbreds

<Patrick`> any reblooming arilbreds?

<RogerD> Pink Betterment has rebloomed for us 4 summers out of the last 5

<Patrick`> is that a newer variety?

<RogerD> one of Ardi's fathers

<SharonMcA> PERSIAN PATTERN is the most reliable reblooming AB I've grown -- but it's next to impossible to get rebloom on medians or TBs here.

<RogerD> we get summer RE on the ABs, but never Fall; last summer 4 diff ABs summer rebloomed

<SharonMcA> some of mine have an unusually long bloom season, which I don't count as rebloom but others say qualifies.

<Patrick`> that would be everbloom wouldn't it?

<RogerD> our ABs that we say RE aren't continuous bloom, they shut down for 6-8 weeks or so, then start up again

<SharonMcA> BUTTERSCOTCH BABY has stayed in bloom almost 2 months, continuing to put up new stalks instead of putting on a fast, massive display.

<Dave> Orchid Cloud is reblooming right now in my garden and two of Monty Byers will bloom within the next couple of days.

<SharonMcA> One, one-year clump in bloom that long! I don't think anything could rebloom here 6-8 weeks after normal AB season.

<RogerD> we don't let ours go dormant, we water them once a week all year, just like the bearded

<Patrick`> that is the same in my garden...once a week all year  unless it rained

<SharonMcA> By Memorial Day, any TB buds that haven't opened have dried up like tissue paper.  That's WITH twice a week watering.

<Patrick`> same here sharon...had that happen on the third bloom stalk of Catalyst last year

<RogerD> this summer both Pink Betterment and Desert Plum looked just like spring time again

<SharonMcA> PINK BETTERMENT remains one of my favorites.

<RogerD> Concerto Grosso didn't do too bad either

<SharonMcA> But, like both parents, the color varies a bit too much from sun to shade.  probably doesn't matter as much in most climates, but obvious here.

<RogerD> our "first-time blooming" AB that we liked the most this year was Desert Fire,  close runner-up was Heimdall

<SharonMcA> I've liked DESERT FIRE since the first time I saw it in Shockey's garden -- but most people think it too regelia-like. Glad to hear others share my diverse tastes!   Haven't grown HEIMDALL myself, but saw photos and would love to find out whether it could take our sun.  someday....

<RogerD> such a glowing metallic finish  

<SharonMcA> HEIMDALL has a most fascinating pedigree -- should sure make an interesting pod parent.

<RogerD> remind me next year Sharon, we'll send you one

Maternal Inheritance

<Dave> Why Pod instead of Pollen Sharon??

<SharonMcA> MONDSEE X MOON DUST.  MONDSEE = (ESTHER FAY x I. hoogiana) X DRESDEN GOLD

<Dave> Are you implying that there are different forces of genetics using it in different positions??

<SharonMcA> So HEIMDALL should have TB cytoplasm, tendency toward more TB-like growth, more flexibility in its response to summer dormancy.

<Dave> I.e. using it one way or the other??

<SharonMcA> Yes. In my experience, plant characteristics are transmitted more through the pod parent than the pollen parent.  In the case of HEIMDALL, I'd certain use its pollen but I would NOT waste a single flower.

<Dave> You'd pollinate every one??

<SharonMcA> EVERY one! Not expecting all to take, of course, but things with such a promising pedigree AND impressive flower are quite rare.

<SharonMcA> Dave -- I can't lay my hands on my EQ stats tonight, but some years ago I did a Chi-Square test on her registrations when used as a pod or pollen parent.  If the direction of the cross is made at random, there should be far more seedlings from pollen than pod. In ABs, I expect to set at least 3 and often more than 10 pods with the pollen from one flower.

<Patrick`> I say go for it sharon...it really only takes ONE flower...the right one

<SharonMcA> BUT far more of the introductions from EQ's descendants were when she was the pod parent.

<Dave> That's getting a lot of mileage out of just three stamens!!

<SharonMcA> I use the old toothpick trick! Each one gives me at least one and usually more than three crosses. Should obviously have said crosses, not pods!

<Dave> Using a separate toothpick each time???

<SharonMcA> EQ's maternal line traces back to I. korolkowii, of course. And her growth habits are much more like korolkowii than the older C.G. White derivatives.

<Patrick`> I use the toothpick continuously, but I stick it in my mouth between crosses.

<SharonMcA> separate toothpick for each pollen cup. starting with a fresh one for each session.

<Dave> I'm not sure you want to keep ingesting all those oxalic acid crystals in the pollen!!

<Patrick`> Dave, I smoke...what difference will it make really?

<SharonMcA> I KNOW I don't! Buy colored toothpicks by the box and have been accused of using them as mulch.

<Patrick`> that is a good idea sharon...lol

<Dave> Add a great deal of color to an otherwise drab looking soil!!

<SharonMcA> One year I grew a large number of seedlings from reciprocal crosses, with one parent known to have korolkowii maternal line and the other onco.

<Dave> And???

<SharonMcA> Examined EVERY seedling closely when it was dug, even those headed to the arroyo.  and those with korolkowii maternal line had EQ's open growth habits while those with the onco line were bunchy like the C.G. Whites.

<SharonMcA> I think that a lot of hybridizers have selected for this more gardenable type of plant without realizing where it came from

<SharonMcA> When I looked through Gene's records, he used EQ a lot as a pod parent. Especially for testing fertility.  When I dug his seedlings, I found podder clumps of EQ scattered about the garden.